Gray.

One of the things I've noticed about the conservative people I've gotten to know, a disportionate majority (not you C.L.A.M.S....because I know you are compassionate thinkers) of those people are incredibly black or white about their thinking. Things are either right or wrong. Good or bad.

They think of this as knowing "right or wrong" but I think of it as a desire and need to fit everything in the world into a set of compartments. To be unable to see things in shades of gray.

I find myself irritatingly unable to see things in black or white. While black or white would make my life so. much. easier. to understand. It's also an incredibly simplistic way to look at the world.

Not seeing life in black or white requires far more complex understanding of the world. I pity people who can not see things in shades of gray.

Comments

[Sarah]

You are very lucky. I, sadly, am a bleeding heart liberal who has a very very hard time seeing any grey anywhere. I think it is maturity that allows for the black and white to blur.

[JuJuBee]

I am striving to see things a bit more "gray-ly" everyday. Any pointers? ;)

[Becky]

Um, what are C.L.A.M.S.?

(beautiful post...forgive my ignorance)

[ChristyD]

I love gray. Gray is exciting and never boring. How lame to think only in black and white (even though it's the fashionable color combo at the moment). I think gray areas are the spice of life.

[Turtlellini]

I only see things as pink or brown. I'm bipolar, so I'm either wearing rose colored glasses or shit colored ones. And sometimes I see corn.

[Lisa V]

Had this argument with my former brother in law many times. People who don't live up to his black and white ideals "don't have the values needed to succeed in society." He actually laughed when I said no issue was black and white. Did I tell you how happy I am he is my former brother in law? Asshole.

[cassandra]

The world IS grey.

[cassandra]

(fearing I appear illiterate, grey is the Canadian 'Gray'.) Cultural difficulties aside, I agree.

[roo]

I'm a big fan of Technicolor...

[elisabeth]

while debating the focus of my blog (after the whole breast cancer 3day walk theme) I toyed with the idea of calling it Gray, and speaking to that which you mention here.....nothing is simply black or white, right or wrong.....but in the end the drunken theme won out. still it is worthy of discussion...

[J]

Barack Obama agrees with you:

"The bottom line is that our job is harder than the conservatives' job. After all, it's easy to articulate a belligerent foreign policy based solely on unilateral military action, a policy that sounds tough and acts dumb; it's harder to craft a foreign policy that's tough and smart. It's easy to dismantle government safety nets; it's harder to transform those safety nets so that they work for people and can be paid for. It's easy to embrace a theological absolutism; it's harder to find the right balance between the legitimate role of faith in our lives and the demands of our civic religion. But that's our job. And I firmly believe that whenever we exaggerate or demonize, or oversimplify or overstate our case, we lose."

It's a great op-ed. You can find the rest here: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/30/102745/165

[jenB]

At the risk of getting flamed (do people still even say that?). I think people are attracted to very conservative, strict religious faiths because of the ease of the black and whiteness of it all.

And the way to Melissa's heart is through Barack, we, the faithful know that. :-)

[kim]

Black (!) or white (!) just frustrates me. It's all so, so gray.

[susan]

I'm with jenB--we live in conservative Oklahoma, but we are not church-going people, and it makes it harder to teach our sons morals and values. I don't have the shorthand of What Would Jesus (or George W) Do, so I have to go it on my own, in the gray areas. And honestly, I sometimes envy the black-and-white folks. But I couldn't be one.

[carolb]

I always thought I was black & white, but it was only my ignorance. If I had a 'black or white' opinion on something and someone gave me their opinion, I thought, "Oh yeah, there's that view too."
So I have become very grey. And it's good!

[eb]

This is a philosophical view called relativism, as opposed to seeing in b/w, which would be absolutism. My belief is that the strange political environment that exists today is a result of a conflict between these two philosophical viewpoints.

Have you seen this BBC series called "The Power of Nightmares?" It is available for download at
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

It pretty much explains the neoconservatives that are running the US today. It's three parts, three hours long, but well worth it in explaining why things are so f*cked up right now. One part of the series talks about how neocons are exploiting and using the religious right (who tend to be absolutists but are generally good people nonetheless) to gain further control and power.

There is also a fascinating article in Salon about a book on this topic.
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2005/08/31/blackburn/

[Dreadmouse]

I tend to see things in greys as well, and for all that I believe it is a more realistic way to see the world, it's also somewhat paralyzing. There are times when those black & white folks go ahead and act, then get on with their lives, while I'm still trying to figure out what I think might be going on...

[divinecalm]

You are wonderful that you know to see shades of gray, but I must insist that seeing only black and white is more symptomatic of human nature rather than whether you are conservative or liberal. I have been around both liberals and conservatives and have been dismayed at how simplistic both their views are. And I DO NOT mean this as a slam to you, because you are awesome, but isn't your generalization a form of "black and white" thinking? On a related note, I highly recommend the movie, "Crash." It deals with race but also shows how even when you are trying to be open-minded, you can apply stereotyping. It's a brilliant movie.

[christy]

It's easy for people to disagree with gray because anytime you say things are relative they can come at you with some crazy situation like "Ok - so sometimes pedophilia is OK? Huh? Huh?" And you have to say "No, that's not what I meant," and they are already feeling superior - their very inability to understand you is part of their viewpoint. They see being unable to see another point of view as a superior personal quality. It's impossible to argue with them because they are actually unable to see gray.

[Nancy Toby]

No binary thinking! People can either see in shades of gray, or they CAN'T!

;-)

[heatherg]

I am a "Black or White" kinda girl and it drives my husband bat-shit.

I, PERSONALLY, find it more simple. Its either this way or that way.....

It is, what it is.

Again- This absolutely kills my husband, I cant tell you how many times we have .......uh...."debated".........ya- "Debated" thats a good word!

Now, i will back out slowly, staring ahead, making sure no one runs towards me with weapons..

[RockStar Mommy]

I personally think that most people in general only see life in shades of black and white, not just a population of conservatives. I think it is the way that most people are wired. And I think that anyone who puts themselves on the extreme sides of either party, left or right, are completely missing the point. They're just determined to be right instead of worrying about the issues.

You're right, life would be much easier. But then again, that's what they say too.

[reenie]

I don’t know if this will come out as I mean it to…I’ve OFTEN been known to put my foot in my mouth: Emotion can often force a black and white mentality. When you hit close to home, it’s easy to block out rational thinking and cling to what your heart tells you is right or wrong. It takes a strong person, emotionally speaking, to get beyond that and see that sometimes, grey really does work. And it does. Now, in saying that…I have to admit that I believe in absolute truth. I believe opinions/views are just that, and truth exists outside of those opinions/views. There is a whole, big universe beyond what we have the capability of understanding, and to think that our opinions are the be all and end all is, well, silly. It’s hard to make your point about this subject because, well…isn’t this my view? Isn’t this my opinion? This is, I guess, exactly why there must be truth outside of my opinions. Also, where do we get our sense of right and wrong from? Why do we know it’s wrong to murder, or steal, or take advantage of children? There must be someplace we’re all getting this from and I think that someplace is truth.

[Michelle]

I didn't know clams were so advanced in their cognitive skills. Are other mollusks similarly talented?

[Dawn]

Being the white wife of a black husband and mother of a biracial daughter, my whole life is gray.

[PaxilMama]

My grey friend--the one who actually turned me on to this site--totally voted for W even though she would describe herself as Libertarian. There is something very very grey and bad about this to me. (If you ask me. Which you didn't.) My black and white thinking is: PLEASE don't vote for W for Christ Sake, just take a BY!

In her grey world I am misguided. I apparently think/act as if everything liberal is GOOD and RIGHT and everything else is NOT. I can assure you that I earnestly think about, read, and discuss all the points of view out there. I can often see validity in the thinking, but then clearly decide that I like one way of thinking better than the other--be it black or white. While I wouldn't say I am consistently either (I am NOTHING if not inconsistent) it just so happens that I typically end up white, since I consider myself to be on the side of light! ha ha

I can definitely see enough grey to understand another point of view and how someone may have arrived to it, but do I have to agree with it? Nope. I'm back to black or white.

As Sarah says it is likely a matter of maturity. I wish I could see things in brown and pink like Turtlellini. And I agree with reenie that perhaps emotion guides my stand-taking. I, however, am a black and white, immature, humorless ball of emotion. Ugh. No wonder I need Paxil...

[JustLinda]

I get so frustrated at the black-and-whiters. But I also envy them... life must be so SIMPLE in their little clean-cut world.

Nothing is ever simple for us greys. We complicate the hell out of everything.

Still, in spite of all that, I do take pride in how grey I am.

[Lin]

Instead of pitying those people, we all have reasonable reason to fear them because in the name of RIGHT and WRONG (and don't forget god) they are making some unforgiveable decisions that are affecting millions and millions of people in this world. Do neocons piss me off??? Don't even get me started.

[clickmom]

I'm not sure if I am b&w or gray, because the rule around here is that I am always right. Having boys I feel obligated to teach them this method to ensure that they can always be right too. It is simple it goes like this "When you don't know the answer say 'I don't know.'" Use this methd and you can always be right too.

[rhonda]

I agree with JustLinda, while being grey is good because of the many points of view we see, it is also at times very complicated. I'll keep messy & complicated over black & white. The answer to any issue is almost never black or white - but a shade of grey that is a fair compromise to all parties involved.

[Dodi]

I've always been grey in a B&W family. They say I think too much. Maybe I do, but they don't think enough. I think it is maturity, but also a willingness to explore new cultures and ideas.

From examining the people I know, I think that reading has a lot to do with how grey a person is. People who don't read at all tend to be strictly B&W. People who only read within certain genres that they are comfortable with have little grey. But the people who read from all over the spectrum of topics tend to have the greyest viewpoints.

This isn't just politics or religion, but how they see themselves and the world around them. The more I experience through other people's point-of-view, the more open to new ideas I become.

[AndreaM]

I completely agree with PaxilMama, even though I am on the conservative side. I think we should use the grey area to understand all of the issues and respect each other's opinions, but we have to end up somewhere. We have to eventually take a stand and make a decision. But, I don't think this is what Melissa meant (sorry if I'm wrong on this one Melissa.) I took it that her frustrations lie with those people who don't even know that the possibility of grey exists. Those who don't even try to understand an opposing viewpoint because it would threaten the safety and security of their tunnel-driven lives. But instead of hating the black and white...I tend to remember that those two colors are needed to make grey. Whenever you make a decision, you will be looked at as either black or white, depending on whether those looking at you agree with you or not. I just think that to make the best decisions you can make, you have to start in the grey, not end there.

[MelissaS]

Ha Paxil Mama, I was just going to say what Andrea just did. (The A in C.L.A.M.S)

I was going to say that one of my favorite, most clear headed and honest thinking friends voted for W and it brought out the gray, even when dealing with Bush. I still loathe him, sometimes so much I want to hurl myself out a window, but here is this person I respect deeply voting for him so I have to know there are many sides to every issue.

Thankfully she doesn't make dismissive statements and judgements of me and the actions I take. I leave that to a specific ex-friend to do on her website.

I don't like when someone (conservative or liberal) tells me "This Is Wrong" "You are a bad person because of A,B and C"

What I realized after I posted this is that by cloaking my comment in the conservative mind frame I was seeing things fairly black and white so it makes my statements sort of ironic. I do realize it's not *all* conservatives who act the way my ex friend does. But I can name five off the top of my head who do.

[gigi]

I grew up being bounced back and forth between my divorced parents- my lesbian mother and my conservative father. In my mother's house, I learned that life consisted of a multitude of shades of understanding and insight. At my father's house, I learned that life could all be boiled down to black and white, right and wrong. It was confusing, to say the least, but it also gave me a broad look at the world from various points of view.

I can't say that I have ever found myself agreeing with my father. I can say, however, that after 30 long years of trying to figure him out, that his opinions and feelings all came from a place of fear. It's very sad actually. My father is no longer with us, and it saddens me to think that this man, who I did love so much, lived a narrow minded life filled with hate and anger. He was confused and deep down, I think that he knew it.

Now I'm in a mixed race marriage (I'm Italian, my husband's Phillipino) and I know that my father is rolling in his grave. Which is really too bad, because I think that he would have liked my husband... if he could only stop seeing the world as black and white.

[PaxilMama]

My new motto:

"Start in the grey, don't end there"

I love that!

[snowcrab]

i tend to loathe those slippery slope arguments more than anything else.

ex.
"if we let The Gays marry then next thing you know people will marry animals! DEAR GOD! THE HORRORS!"

feh. caca.

[Katy]

I actually think both can be dangerous. Lines do have to be drawn, otherwise it's easy to justify murder or theft etc. I think it's important to be able to see things broadly in black and white and also to understand the nuances (shades of gray). Think about how much "gray" had messed with our legal system. Government laws should be easy - black and white, but we need all these judges and lawyers to figure out the gray - and they manipulate the gray so much that the black and white becomes meaningless.

I Like the NYT column The Ethicist, because he does go beyond the legal/black and white, but delineates why things should be right or wrong. I'm still (at 34) figuring out what I beleive and how I see things.

[serene]

My personal values are black and white. I know what I want in my life and what is unacceptable. My societal values are grey in that I believe each person has to choose their own color scheme and have the freedom to do so. It makes my life simple and gives me the ability to enjoy the complexity and diversity of life.

[Kat]

I would absolutely agree that today's pressing issues are complex. But to say everything is always gray is dangerous, too. It can lead to indecisiveness and waffling. A true leader looks at an issue, the costs and benefits of each option, chooses one and leads the people to that end. I don't thing the problem with neo-cons (I separate them from conservatives, who can generally be innocuously moderate) is that they deal in absolutes. They just make decisions that that benefit their own, and screw most of the world. And the problem with GW is that he isolates himself and only listens to his inner circle, and therefore doesn't make decisions that have anything to do with reality (although this system is rapidly breaking down). His overreliance on the Bible and fundamentalist Christianity doctrine also hinders his ability to think rationally. Did any thinking person think that the Iraqi people would welcome us as liberators? Did anyone else forsee the insurgency? I merely listen to NPR and read the occasional NYT Sunday, something GW doesn't do, and I could have told you this was never going to work.

I don't think the neo-cons' way is a problem of absolutes, it's a failure in imagination, compassion, and what's good for this country and the world, economically and socially, in the long-term. In short, they're selfish, stupid people.

[Mere]

Gray is my favorite color. ;)

[WindyLou]

AMEN sista!

[Annejelynn]

everything is subjective/relative - my step-mom and I butt heads on this concept all the time

[Stephanie]

Andrea, you have the wonderful, unique ability to express yourself in such a measured, thoughtful way. I admire your talent for making me see the other (conservative) side of things without pissing me off!
And Melissa, I really didn't see your post as at all ironic...maybe because I'm just a liberal at heart. But you do try to see the gray, that's pretty obvious to anyone who knows you.
It is important to see the other side of things. As you've said before, most of us want the same basic things, we just have different ideas of how to accomplish them. And honestly, I don't think Barack Obama can say or do ANYTHING to diminish my love for him. Wouldn't it be a better world if there were more people like him in it?

[andreainjapan]

I love black and white. I have a strong belief of what is right and what is wrong, but I always view the world as grey and am always looking for the dominant colour in every situation.
My marriage to a Chinese man, living in Japan but coming from Canada, has definitly expanded my variations of grey. Grey can have so many tints of green, red and yellow in it making a whole rainbow of complexities.
For me the hardest part will be to teach my daughter black and white but how to make rainbows.

[Michele]

I use all of those colors in my life. My personal values, like lying, cheating etc--they have to be black or white. I know all to well what my ex-husband who lived in the grey did with that train of thought. "Did you tell her you were married? No, she didn't ask." It's so easy to find a slippery slope when needed. I think in colors of grey when it comes to life choices or sexual preferences.

I also think of it this way, if everyone thought either black/white or visa versa—we'd had never been able to debate this subject. Variety is the spice of life.

[kim]

I hate to sound like the ignorant Canadian, but it's been bothering me.... What's a C.L.A.M? *blush*

[Koan Bremner]

Gray is the new black?

That is why you shouldn't take fashion advice from me. Anyway, the more people who accept that this is not a binary, either / or world, the better, in my opinion. I'll take an infinity of choices over two any day of the week.

[Sarah]

Both all grey/gray thinking and all black and white thinking are misguided. There is such a thing as being moral but accepting and seeing the need for everyone to be loved.

[Jen M.]

It's funny that you say that; my husband and I are both somewhat conservative, and just this morning we were talking about how to us, extremists seem to see everything in black and white.

And this goes for both sides, extreme conservatives and extreme liberals. As in the religious right: if you're gay you're going to hell. And as in Howard Dean, chairman of the DNC, "I hate Republicans and everything they stand for. We're the good, they're the bad." No room for gray there: if you disagree with him, you must be a bad person.

I see your point, that everything is indeed in shades of gray. But do you not see that your blanket statement about conservatives is not exactly a shades-of-gray way to think?

The way I see it, liberals and conservatives both want the same things for this country: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all. We just have different philosophies on how to achieve that goal. Extremists, on the other hand, want everyone to think exactly like themselves. And neither side has a monopoly on extremism.

[Heatherg]

Would someone please tell those of us who dont know, what the fuck C.L.A.M.S is!!!!!!!!

I dont care at this point if you call me a dumbass for not knowing, just someone please tell me!!

Thank you for your kindness....

[LesleyMW]

From the first few pages of Google for "C.L.A.M.S.":
Cape Libraries Automated Materials Sharing
Computer Literate Advocates for Multiple Sclerosis
Coastal Landscape Analysis and Modeling Study
Clams are invertebrates that burrow under the sea floor.

[Stephanie]

C.L.A.M.S. is a kind of silly name for a group of five friends, Melissa being one of them. One of us came up with the idea in amoment of drunken inspiration and it just seems to stick.

[wookie]

I think the art in being healthy with black/white thinking patterns is to remember, constantly, that what is black for one might be white or grey for another. Very few things/situations have a clearly black or white view in objectivity, it all depends on what lens you're looking through.

Note that what we're decribing as black/white or grey thinking might also have a high degree of correlation to persons with strong critical thinking skills as opposed to someone who makes empathic decisions or judgements. The old Myers-Briggs type indicators :-P

[Vanessa]

I look for the shades of gray whenever I can. Even in a situation when I absolutely disagree with someone's actions, I at least try to see why they think they might be right.

Have you ever heard Live's song The Beauty of Gray?? I think it's very appropriate.

[Sora]

As many of the other posters have said, this entry is Black & White. Your argument is faulty: "Most conservatives ONLY see in black & white and that is simplistic. And, I know better than most conservatives."

That reminds me of something a kid would say: "Boys say stupid things. And, I feel sorry for boys. I'm glad I'm not a boy."

[MelissaS]

Oh Sora, sometimes it's helpful to read the comments and the actual words in my writing, rather than making up your own words based on your experiences.

I admitted my faulty logic above, I'll quote it here.

"What I realized after I posted this is that by cloaking my comment in the conservative mind frame I was seeing things fairly black and white so it makes my statements sort of ironic. I do realize it's not *all* conservatives who act the way my ex friend does. But I can name five off the top of my head who do."

At the same time, I said, among "the conservative people I've gotten to know" "a disportionate majority of them" (them meaning those I have gotten to know who happen to be conservative) "are incredibly black and white about their thinking"

Which speaks only to my experience with those peole I know. Which is fair and reasonable. It's not a phenomenon limited to conservatives of course and I never claimed it to be.

But you're right I'm glad I'm not a black or white thinker. I do feel sorry for them. Conservative or liberal. (Your boys argument is annoying.)

[angela marie]

so there.

[Sora]

Hey Melissa,

Sorry. I didn't see your follow-up comment to your entry. I read some of the comments and scrolled to the end.

About my boy argument, that comes from knowing far too many philosophy majors. You can say whatever you want to one of them, as long as the argument is valid.

[jb]

Hate to tell ya, but it's because of all you "gray-ers" out there that the world is a morally decaying mess. And I bet that if you took a poll that the people struggling the most with depression do not see things as truth...which is black. and. white.

[MelissaS]

Thank you JB for making my point. Are you sure you're not K.S. because she's HUGE on "The Truth" of which she is personally the judge of.

People like you make me afraid for our country.

[Karyn]

But aren't we all black and white about many things? E.g. I think that discriminating against gays is *always* wrong, going to war without exhausting peaceful alternatives is *always* wrong, being open-minded to new people and cultures is *always* right, etc. For me (and most other people I know) there are no gray areas in those matters. I have a lot of problems with conservatives, but I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that they're the only ones who see the world in black and white.

[Belinda]

Hey, that's even in my little sidebar of "things about me". I really AM incapable of seeing most things as black or white, and I don't get people who do. My gut feeling is that they're frightened and insecure. Think how much less *complicated* the world would be if there really were no variants, no gradations? Everyone would wear white or black hats, and you'd feel safe and happy as long as you kept to the side you'd chosen. I think it'd be great, in a way. In a way.

[Belinda]

Hey, that's even in my little sidebar of "things about me". I really AM incapable of seeing most things as black or white, and I don't get people who do. My gut feeling is that they're frightened and insecure. Think how much less *complicated* the world would be if there really were no variants, no gradations? Everyone would wear white or black hats, and you'd feel safe and happy as long as you kept to the side you'd chosen. I think it'd be great, in a way. In a way.