When Alicia Ybarbo from The Today Show contacted me about the Cosmopolitan Mommies piece in the New York Times she told me the show was interested in doing a piece about this supposed 'trend'. We talked at length about my own playgroup, about the response to the piece and about how it isn't a 'new trend' it's something women have been doing since the 60's.
In the beginning they wanted to come and film my playgroup for the piece. Since our kids are now all in school full time, we don't have a weekly playgroup anymore so this was problematic. I suggested a more 'happy hour' gathering where we'd meet after school and our husband's would swing by after work for our usual family pizza night. Alicia said the mixing of dads would 'taint' the story (Read: "Make the subject more palatable because men keep their women in line and they have an auxilary liver in their penises.") So I told Alicia it just wasn't going to work out. My friends are busy with young kids and active schedules, so sorry.
After seeing how they twisted 3 hours of filming into a wine bottle orgy when those women (one who's commented here) had a glass each, except for her because she'd found out she was pregnant. How they chose quotes which made it sound as if the author believes sober mothers are not very good mothers. With the way my mouth goes and goes and goes, they could easily have pulled a very unpleasant quote from 3 hours of my yapping. Not only that, if my friends were embarassed by their portrayal I would be about 1000 times more angry at this point.
A month or two later Alicia contacted me again. She said she had loved what I had to say on the topic and they'd like me to come to New York City to be on the show. At that point I wet my pants. I wet my pants not because I was so excited to go on television but because I knew this was an opportunity I could not refuse. Even though I hate talking on the phone and am far better in writing than I am in person. Even though I would like to weight 20 pounds less to appear on television. I knew that, for me personally this would be a huge step toward being the person I want to be.
Alicia said it would be a live segment in the studio and there would be a psychologist, Dr Janet Taylor, there with me. Here is where the lies begin and this is a huge part of why I am so angry about the experience and am using this platform I have to explain it.
The psychologist is 'on board' with the whole thing. She's a mother herself and understands. She's just there to set limits and to explain what may be 'a problem'. Which makes a lot of sense to me. Once we define problem drinking and how to know when you might be crossing over into that realm, we can have a light hearted conversation about moms getting together to be social while their children play. Just like Regular Grown Ups.
As time went on ramping up to my appearance. The psychologist bit seemed to be changing a little. Alicia informed me the psychologist was now feeling like she had to say mother's of very young babies shouldn't be drinking (something I still disagreed with, but okay....), "...you know things like that."
Right before Alicia left town (she was not on set for my appearance....hmm....surprising) she said, (something like, I'm starting to realize why she always wanted to talk on the phone, not via email) "Now, Dr Janet Taylor's position has changed a bit. She's feeling like as a professional she has a responsibility to make sure women understand the risks."
Which still, I was okay with because in my world there is a difference between drinking and drinking to get drunk.
In the end I showed up on a show with Dr Janet Taylor, well trained media machine who was not discussing drinking in moderation but was instead talking about women as children who have no clue how to drink in moderation and can not be trusted.
I was told this was going to be a 'lighthearted' discussion. I pictured talking about how no one is talking about 'Kids And Keggers!', I pictured discussing drinking as a social activity many adults do, I pictured discussing how my husband and I often drink as a social activity at kid centered activities and not a single reporter or television has ever called to ask my husband "what that glass of beer means to him". I wanted to emphasize how silly it is to call this a trend. I wanted to emphasize how mothers are raising children, they are not children themselves.
I was not at all prepared for a debate between "Melissa Summers, blogger!" and "Dr Janet Taylor, psychologist with impressive resume and four kids." I was especially not prepared for a debate which involved Dr Janet Taylor repeating the same thing over and over like a very tall robot.
"Mothers must find healthy ways to relieve stress." Really Dr Janet Taylor? Like doing Yoga, meeting friends for dinner, going out with my husband, spending a few alone hours at the coffee shop or the bookstore browsing? Like that? Oh, good because those are things I do as well and I just pointed them out and I may as well have been talking to my hand because you heard none of it.
Dear Alicia Ybarbo, If I had known this would be some sort of faux debate I would not have agreed to appear with a fucking psychologist with plenty of television experience as my opponent. This was unfair and you know it and that is why I was never informed this was a debate.
Would I have had the same discussion with another blogger who thinks it's not a good idea to drink at playgroups? Yes absolutely. We may have been on equal footing in that way. A blogger may have been able to actually say something of value or entertainment because we are not trained in the ways of traditional media. Which for Dr Janet Taylor means saying the same thing over and over without ever really saying anything of value.
Things like, "We underestimate...." the effects of even one drink on our ability to parent. Dr Taylor? Did you know our bodies have something called a liver and our liver can process alcohol? It's funny how people all over America routinely operate a car going 30-80 miles per hour and are considered legally able after one drink. But you're right Dr Janet Taylor, after one drink I can't change a diaper or push a kid on a swing or wipe somebody's butt.
Jennifer Ramsey from Stay At Home Motherdom
was quoted in the New York Times piece and has a personal story of
alcoholism which sprouted out of the loneliness of early motherhood.
Any social drinking can develop into alcoholism. Your husband's beers over football could as easily become alcoholism as a drink over the swingset could. But it's true, it's always a risk and it's something worth discussing especially as a network which doesn't want to be blamed when a mother says, "Well Meredith Viera says I can drink whatever I want whenever I want!" and then drives drunk killing herself and her children. Yes, I can see that.
I'm trying to keep this organized but as I explained at someone's birthday party yesterday (with Siobahn!) the longer I let this simmer the less able to sum it up I feel. I'm used to writing in 10 minutes off the top of my head with barely an edit. I've written this post 12 times, starting on the plane on my way home from the debacle.
After Alice headed back to New Jersey to get Henry from school I went back to the hotel to watch the video of the appearance and the more angry I felt. A combination of exhaustion and intense anger left me crying in the lobby of my hotel trying to get NBC to get me a flight home ASAP. When Isabel, from Alpha Mom, arrived to take me out for a drink she was greeted with my sobbing face.
I don't like being lied to. I don't like being called a babysitter. And I don't like being pitted against a psychologist unexpectedly on national television.
NBC called me at 3 o'clock (the process had started at 1pm) to tell me they'd gotten me a flight at 3:50. Wow, thank you NBC. You've given me 30 minutes to make it through Manhattan to Laguardia...to check my bag and get through security. You rule!
That's actually when the crying started and Isabel arrived. I ended up calling back my contact, telling her to forget it I clearly don't have enough time to make it. In 5 minutes I'd booked my own flight and paid for it myself. All I wanted was to be home where I could tell Logan how intensely pissed I was.
In the meantime I told Isabel, who, as we all know, is very familiar with the dark side of media, all about it until I inhaled all the air out of the lounge we sat in. It was exactly what I needed and Isabel had great input I definitely wouldn't have gotten from Logan. God love him, but remember he's got a second liver in his penis and so a free pass to do as he pleases.
Let's talk about what happened behind the scenes. Alice chatted with Dr. Janet Taylor in the green room while I had my makeup finished. Alice asked, "Well what's the difference between a family at a backyard bar-b-que drinking a few beers while the kids play?"
Dr. Janet Taylor replied, "I think there's a difference between a bar-b-que and a playdate."
Alice asked, "What?"
And they were interrupted and Dr Janet Taylor had no answer except, I assume, "Mothers must find healthy ways to relieve stress. Mothers must find healthy ways to relieve stress. Mothers must find healthy ways to relieve stress."
Do fathers need to find healthy ways to relieve stress? And healthy ways to support one another? These are questions we'd all like to know but Meredith Viera is more concerned about the difference between a mother and a hired caregiver. Way to go Club Mom co-founder! Name change: "Club Glorified Babysitters!"
Is the difference between a backyard bar-b-que with families the fact that there are penises around to keep the mommies from over doing it? We underestimate the effects of even one drink after all. Is the difference the fact that there's alcohol combined with an open flame and children? I'm dying to know Dr. Janet Taylor.
Right before we went on air, Dr Janet Taylor and I were standing waiting to be mic'd. At this point I was thinking we were still on reasonably the same team. I was excited. I asked her if she'd done television before and she said yes, several times. Oh? Awesome for me! I'll follow your lead (except that her lead was robotic and said nothing of value to anyone). She also brought up two stories of mothers who had been drinking during the day, one had killed people at the elementary school during after school pick up and another had killed her children driving drunk.
I said, "Well, obviously these are people who were not aware of their limits and over did it. There have to be limits."
Dr Janet Taylor said something like, "Well maybe there are no limits." (I don't remember what she said exactly but her answer gave me an unsettled feeling about what was about to happen.)
And then we got onto our stools and Meredith Viera called me Marissa when she met me and that really boded well.
Things I wish you could have seen: Meredith Viera choking on a monster sized turd when I suggested sometimes my children make me think about ridiculous things, like selling him on ebay. (Thank God I didn't mention that summer where I wanted to eat the children dipped in chocolate. Lighten up Meredith!)
I wish you could have seen me roll my eyes in frustration when Dr Janet Taylor was given the last chance to speak and said absolutely nothing but a bunch of 'healthy ways! Not judging your alcoholism and inept parenting!' Oh wait, you did see that...and I thought I'd hidden it so well.
Logan said, "When you looked down and sighed at the end? Anyone who knows you knows that's your 'I'm trying not to punch you' look."
Things I wish had gone differently:
When Meredith asked me what the difference between me and a babysitter is."[Hearty Laugh With Incredulous Head Shake] Meredith? Did you seriously just ask me what makes me as a mother different than someone I pay to give care to my children? The co-founder of Club Mom just asked me that?" I also wished I'd said, "Well since my role as mother is 24/7, I often have anal sex with my husband while 'on duty'. I don't really want my babysitter having anal sex with my husband."
Just imagine the turd which would fill Meredith Viera's mouth with that comment. It makes me giddy. Absolutely giddy. Dr Janet Taylor's head would have popped off and rolled away calling, "Mothers need to find healthy ways! HEALTHY WAYS!!!! HEALTHY!!!!!"
I wish Meredith would have been prepared to ask some more pointed questions of Dr. Janet Taylor. Things like, "Why is it not okay for mother's to be social as adults, while their children are social as children?"
Or
"Is it okay for fathers and mothers to have a few drinks at a bar-b-que?"
"Is it fine for families to socialize together with adult beverages? What makes that different?"
But no, let's just let Dr Janet Taylor spout her same ridiculous message over and over without ever asking her for clarification of her position.
I wish that the author in the green shirt had not said her ridiculous comment about sober mothers not being good mothers. I hope this was a misrepresentation of what she meant. Because I hardly think a sober mother is not a good one. Also, I think it's probably wise to generally keep your drinking within the legal limits of sobriety when drinking with or without children (or you could ask your husband to help keep you sober...God knows women don't know how to control themselves). I wish though, she'd said something more like:
"Show me a mother who never drinks and you'll be showing me a mother just like myself who is still a woman, is a human being who makes the choices she thinks are best and who is making dozens of mistakes every single day with her kids and almost none of those mistakes will ever matter in the big picture. So everyone chill the fuck out."
I wish I'd brought up the socializing with alcohol my husband and I do together and questioned why my husband has never been brought to New York to be shamed for having a drink in front of his children. No one has ever asked him "What that drink represents to him...." No one has questioned his ability to be a parent after having a glass of wine.
I like to picture Dr Janet Taylor replying, "Well, men have a penis." and Meredith Viera shaking her head in agreement, "Yes, yes....a penis!"
Most amusingly, at the end of the segment when the cameras went off Meredith Viera said, "In Europe this wouldn't even be an issue." Right Meredith and NBC. Thanks for helping out the cause you moron.
Let's see if I can put into list form the things which have upset me. I am not at all upset with how I was portrayed. I think NBC came across pretty clear. They invited a media savvy psychologist to go up against a mother with a blog. They asked no real questions and the psychologist said nothing but a premade sound bite, "Women must find healthy ways.....to be martyrs!"
I came across as I'd wanted to. As a normal woman who likes to combine her roles as a mother and an adult. I came across nervous, but reasonably well spoken (especially for someone who is afraid of the phone) and I interrupted where I needed to and challenged Dr Janet Taylor in a way someone, like a journalist (Hey Meredith!), should have.
What made me unhappy were these three things:
I do not like being lied to and set up for something I was not expecting and was not prepared for at all.
I did not like the overall stench of misogyny. I don't like crying SEXISM, I find it annoying as all hell. Both sexes have to deal with stereotypes and negative attitudes, but something about this idea that drinking is okay if husbands are around infuriates a very deep rooted anger in me.
I also do not like the lack of questioning of what fathers drinking around children implies. It feeds into the mothers as martyrs thing I mentioned falling into last year and which I've been trying my damndest not to fall into again. That somehow mothers have more of an obligation to be 'appropriate' or 'not concerned' with their own needs than fathers do. It's bull shit and the media messages only perpetuate it, so much so that I found myself mired in it without really realizing it or intending to do it.
Finally it bothers me, The Today Show had yet another chance to bridge the Mommy Wars and instead they laid out a stupid black and white message with the power of a psychologist suggesting mothers who have even one glass of wine are being irresponsible parents. NBC and The Today Show have sent out another wave to fan the flame of the Mommy Wars and I'm fed up with it.
And before I get another round of 'But you're judging mothers who don't drink!' let me reiterate: I am judging mothers who judge *me* for having a glass of wine in front of my kids without my husband's penis in attendance. I don't care if you drink or not and if you don't care if I drink or not, then we'll get a long just great. Unless you're a baby eating presbyterian or if you are incredibly negative and every other word that comes out of your mouth is a complaint or if you're my in laws (who do drink!).
This is terribly long and I'm not even sure if I'm getting across everything I wanted to.
But let's link to other people who are talking about this in a more detached way because I am about to tell you that someone who was on that stage with me had pants which were cut so low her thong rose above the waistband by about 4 inches. Professional! Talking about setting examples for our kids. Tsk tsk. But see that's a really bitchy personal attack so I'm not really going to do it. Except that I did. I'm a blogger, we're like live wires.
The Zero Boss talks about it here.
Karen at Home on the Fringe here.
Stefania at CityMama here.
Eden at Fussy here.
Izzy at Izzy Mom here.
SupaMB here.
CalistaWolf at LilacPixels here.
Chris at Notes from the trenches here.
Mysternyc here.
The Bean Blog here.
A Mommy Story here.
Get Sheila here.
Laid off dad here.
Kristin at Imperfect Mommy here.
(The newly pregnant!) Mihow here.
At MayasMom here.
VenturaMom here.
Jessica at Kerflop here.
Alice at Finslippy, who spooned me the night before, here.
Karli at Mom on a Wire here.
Kris at Wonder Mom here.
Mamaloo, the doula at momcast, here.
Amy at BlissfullyBitchy here.
Danielle at Foodmomiac here.
Grace at State of Grace here.
Nancy at Mom, Ma'am, Me here.
Susan at Friday Playdate here.
Jen at Jen Dude-ist here.
B.V. at I Had A Thought here.
The Silicon Valley Moms here.
Karen at Troll Baby makes it short and sweet here.
SoloMom at Sanity and the Solo Mom (at NBC owned iVillage! Hee!) here.
Suburban Turmoil here.
Erika at The Daily Camera here.
There are of course lots of places discussing how very wrong I am and how right Dr Janet Taylor is. But I don't feel a responsiblity as a blogger to search out those links for you. You may call it what you will. But a lot of the personal attacks out there are being written simply (including a 7 paragraph long comment/discussion of my personality disorder, my need for dental work, my horrid haircut and payless shoes!)(WOW!) to attract links, hits and readers. You can find those on your own.
My purpose is to share my thoughts and show the producer at NBC what other people are saying about how they handled this topic.
I have not deleted a single comment on this thread and I've left several thoughtful opposing viewpoints remain in my comments, including one which calls me an alcoholic. I've responded to some negative comments because I found them so irritating. So please give me a break here. If you want to make personal attacks or have your opinion mostly left unchallenged then you'll have to do it at someone else's site or your own.
My final thought is this: I don't need Meredith Viera to tell me to have a drink. I don't need Janet Taylor to tell me I'm a good mother. I do want the way we look at motherhood to change. The drink is symbolic of a bunch of other issues related to being a mother.
That's my bigger picture.
No, it's not world peace, but the mommy wars certainly aren't creating world peace are they?
[Edit: Please see my update about the follow up piece at The Today Show here.]
Her little boy is very sweet and funny and kind. The perfect kind of crazy for Max.
And if I've changed as much as I have, I can only think she's changed as much.
I'll get over it and it seems to me if we've ended up living blocks from each other (after growing up in the poor part of town vs. the nice part of town) with our boys in class together and taking a shine to each other....probably this is something I'm supposed to work through.]
[Adding also: She's not evil or mean, as much as I wasn't a freak or crazy.]
[Edited: Removing names and most identifying details. I fucked up. Again. See more here.]