Sometimes you have to live it to really understand.

Madison is a very good reader. She loves to read and often reads several books at a time. Which, according to Logan, is the sign of genius. To me it's a sign that she's inherited Logan's Cluttered Nightstand Syndrome. But anyway. Reading is her best thing.

Math is not her best thing. Math is more her gnashing of the teeth thing. She hates it and it's very difficult for her and so, she tries her hardest to not think about it more than is absolutely required. For the last couple of years though I've watched her fall behind in math, she had trouble memorizing her multiplication facts in second grade, which put her a little behind in third grade. Now in fourth grade it's all very difficult. Except geometry and place value, which is interesting because geometry was the only math class I ever got A's in.

Last year there were several evenings and mornings where I'd try to help her with her homework and we'd end up in screaming matches. I would sit down, intending to be a reasonable person and I'd end up gouging my eyeballs out with a pencil. Which doesn't make one very reasonable.

She would say the most aggravating things like, "THE TEACHER DOESN'T CARE IF WE GET THE RIGHT ANSWER!!!!!!"

?

And another favorite, "Oh, well I did that. That thing you're telling me. I did that. Yeah, right see, 7 + 4 is 12. Right it's 12. 12. It's 12. THE TEACHER DOESN'T CARE IF WE GET THE RIGHT ANSWER."

At which point we'd begin screaming at each other and a pencil would end up lodged in my eyeball.

Logan said he would help her with her homework, because he is less likely to lodge pencils in his eyeball. But Logan has about 6.3 minutes of 'Help With Homework' time in his day, unless he stops breathing, he'd get about 12.6 minutes then. So the bulk of homework help has fallen on me and it is a source of constant stress in this house.

I've been suggesting a tutor for a while but neither one of us has really taken the bull by the horns and done it.

Last night Logan had a rare night at home, don't worry after the kids went to bed he worked on Boy Scout things and the school newsletter a bit....we wouldn't want him to just sit around. Maddie showed him her work from the day and she got several problems wrong on their daily math worksheet. Things we thought she knew how to do, so Logan asked her to correct it.

Or maybe he asked Madison to saw off her fingers with a butter knife, I don't know. He couldn't possibly have asked her to simply correct a math problem based on the reaction Maddie had.

I tried to warn him. To tell him how he was about to ruin his only night at home this week. But he thought he would handle her better than I can.

Oh, it's a little sad to see that brave front wiped away. Only not really at all because sometimes it's nice to see The Robot crack.

Here's the conversation:

"Okay so that's why you're getting it wrong. You have to multiply across this way."

"No we don't. That's not what the teacher says. You're wrong."

"Maddie, here is the answer to this question. If you work it that way, you can't get it right."

"That's not the answer then."

"It is the answer. It's a calculator."

"Not in my class that's not the answer. You're wrong. My teacher wants us to do it this way."

"Your teacher wants you to have the wrong answer?"

"It's only wrong to you."

To his credit he remained calm for about 15 minutes of this, as he patiently tried to show her how you work the problem. At some point though her eye rolling and pouting lip which was dragging across the floor got to be too much.

He mimed strangling her behind her back and stuck his tongue out at her. I stick pencils in my eye and scream, he turns into a five-year-old. At that point he suggested she take a 5 minute break in her room and they'd come back to it.

When she left he said, staring at the paper, "Is it possible the teacher is teaching them a new way to do this type of problem?"

My daughter is making my husband doubt his ability to solve this problem: $458.70 x 45

She came back down, they tried to tackle the problem again. Her lip touched the ground, she hunched her shoulders so roundly she became a ball and suddenly 5x0 was most definitely 5. And THAT IS THE WAY HER TEACHER TELLS THEM TO DO IT!!!!!!

The teacher wants them to do it wrong.

At that point Logan stood up, walked out the side door and came back 10 minutes later announcing a tutor would be coming every Tuesday and Thursday starting next week.

(Reason #842 to love this house. A tutor lives right next door!)

Comments

[Kate]

Check out www.cosmeo.com . It's the Discovery channel's homework help site. My son uses it primarily for math, and it's helped reduce some of the homework fighting and tears. You can plug in your child's math textbook, and then when they need a problem explained, they just put in the page number and it gives a step by step demonstration (with a nice friendly teacher-ly voice explaining each step) on how to solve similar problems. There are also quizzes for each section with explanations for how to solve each question once completed. If you want to check it out further than you can see without subscribing (I think it's $10/mo), shoot me an email and I'll send you my son's login so you can check it out.

[Shelly Owens]

I have to say, we have a hard time helping our daughter with her math homework too because they are doing it differently than when we were in school. When trying to help her, my daughter often says the same things, that the teacher does it a different way. So finally I emailed the teacher and she said the same thing my daughter said, YES, they do math differently than when I was in school.

That is when I started having her stay after school for math help twice a week.

GOOD LUCK!

[NicoleP]

Oh, poor Madison. That EXACTLY how I was in school. My 3rd grade teacher joked that I was the only student in the class who could start a subtraction problem and get an answer that was larger than either of the two numbers. It should have been a sign to someone that I needed a tutor, but to no avail. Bless you for getting her a tutor!

But a thought for you... it turned out that I'm actually not bad at math, but I'm very bad with numbers. I was pretty good in algebra because it makes math an if, then sentence. In college I took a class where we wrote paragraphs about addition problems... drawing diagrams about why they work. I drew diagrams and wrote extensively about 6+6. It really helped my brain to visualize numbers in the way it needed to... as words! Since Madison is such a great reader I would guess that she has a nice relationship with words, so maybe it would help? Just a thought :)

[Karen C.]

Ah, I feel your pain. And it doesn't help that they truly do math a different way than they used to. I mean, sure, they still want the right answer, but...lol. Anyway, good luck with the neighbor/tutor!!

[Sarah]

Ack! this sounds like me in elementary school. My mom was a teacher, and I would get very stuck on any difference between what she said and what the teacher said. I know this is unasked for, but she is so anxious, you might try therapy for her--I know that seems like an odd suggestion for math problems,but the inflexibility that she stuggles with can make getting help really hard.

[SuburbanCorrespondent]

Forget the therapy. Hurry on over to Amazon.com and pick up a copy of John Rosemond's Ending The Homework Hassle. Do it! Now! He's very funny and very helpful. I love him. Don't tell my husband.

[plumsinbloom]

Woo hoo! A tutor! My husband is a paraprofessional at a junior high, and it's amazing what he's re-learned in those science and math classes. More and more I feel like all the time we spend in school as kids was a waste - unless you use it daily as an adult, it's all forgotten anyway.

[M&Co.]

That sounds exactly like my house. Kumon (http://kumon.com/) was my answer.

[summer]

Is her math text of the Saxon variety? I ask because my son's Saxon math has been getting all Beowulf on my ass for the last 8 years (and I took advanced math throughout school). This year---8th grade---has been one of the worst, math-wise, and my son and I have had lots and lots of eye-stab inducing conversations, too. I try to use the book to help myself be able to help him, but...well, that can be infuriating for both of us.

I was also very language-oriented as a kid, and a study tip that helped me get through calculus was to write out directions for solving different types of problems in paragraph form. I know it seems redundant and perhaps even a bit remedial, but once I memorized the hand-written directions on how to solve the problems, my skills improved immediately. Might this help with Maddie? Perhaps she, with the help of her teacher or tutor, could write out instructions for her (and you) to review when she is stuck on a particular kind of problem.

Good luck with the tutor!

[Lisa V]

We struggle with math constantly. I am so thankful this is my daughter's last year in high school math. God willing, and maybe some bribes, she'll pass.

We are especially thankful she has a smokin' hot body, because it may be her only way to pass in college.

[sarahbeanne]

Getting a tutor sounds like an EXCELLENT plan to keep family peace.
I want to echo Shelly's above comment about emailing the teacher. Aren't you dying of curiosity to know how they are doing their math?
I'm a school psychologist and I love watching children approach math problems. They tend to work the problems in interesting ways that I never would have thought of. Then when I bring this up at a results meeting, it's not the teachers' way of doing things either. And these kids are getting the correct answer! Sometimes.

[alexis]

oh, sounds so familiar to my childhood homework screaming matches!

[soozey]

Yay tutors! Very smart move. I had a math tutor around 5th or 6th grade and I remember really liking it. There was absolutely no way I would ever listen to my Mother. I gotta give it up to people who homeschool. If I homeschooled my kids, they would drop out!!!

[TeriLynn]

Lisa V- that was hysterical!

I was always really good with geometry too. I would make up answers that made sense to me, and they'd be right. No clue how that worked, because I never did a stitch of homework, and I never listened to the teacher.
I still suck at math. Without a tutor, Maddie will be glued to her calculator for life, just like me.

[melissac]

I used to tutor math. I think asking for help is a great idea.

Maddie needs to memorize the multiplication tables. Once she does that, everything will be so much easier. Maybe worksheets if she is playing school? Or using a dry erase board and timing her, tracking her improvement on a chart? My mom used to take me shopping and have me figure out the price of things. If something cost $12, but is 40% off, how much is it? Will the $6 you have be enough for that? Things like that.

Does she learn well by repetition? Once she gets that skill down, the other stuff will help.

My sympathies for all the tension in your house. I hope things get better soon.

[MomVee]

Madison came over to my house the other night and I tried to help her practice the piano using the metronome. Oh, wait, that was _my_ fourth-grade daughter. Anyway, I sympathize.

[Shandra]

Hey this might amuse you. Or horrify you. Depending on which curriculum your daughter is using:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI&mode=related&search=

[grants04]

Are you sure that you weren't a fly on the wall in MY house? We have that same conversation (comlpete with the husband who initially thinks that he can handle it better than me only to have him also come unglued!)on a daily/weekly basis. Good luck. We're in 3rd grade and still haven't figured out how to do it better. But, of course, we're a totally different child at school. The teachers would not recognize the homework demon we get at home... Lots of luck!

[JeniG]

Thought this might make you laugh a little. Well maybe once the tutor is in and helping Maddie understand things . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXx2VVSWDMo

[nashvegas]

My fourth grader can't seem to grasp his times tables either.
He's actually very good at math, though. His problem is showing his work. Earlier this week he had to do five math word problems, and answer each of them in sentence form - using at least FIVE sentences for each problem. That's in addition to showing the actual math work they did.
It took for-freaking-ever to do something he normally could have knocked out in just a few minutes.

[The Metamorph]

Would it be helpful to schedule a conference with the teacher, the tutor, yourselves, and Maddie all together to discuss the problems she's having in math and how certain things are done? Just so everyone's on the same page?

That way, when someone tries to help her, she can't say the teacher told her to do it wrong, because she knows you were there with her. I know it's got to be frustrating for Maddie to be told to do one thing three different ways, and to have each person say someone else is doing it wrong, but as the parent it's also frustrating not to be able to help out our kids!

I mean, the only reason for taking High School Algebra is to be able to help your kid do his when it's his turn, right? :P

[CinAA]

Oh my, does that sound familiar. We are all On Notice here that if things don't improve, dance class is out and Kumon is in. Strangely, this has increased the amount of attention and effort re: math, like she's managed (fifth grade) to memorize the multiplication tables at long last.

My sympathies. We have much screaming and eyeball poking and strangle-gesturing here, too.

[CursingMama]

What I'm dying to know, -
when you were sitting on the sidelines watching - did you do the "I told You So" dance on the inside.
I would've.

[Mrs X]

We go through that same scenario (minus the promise of a tutor) everyday. I start helping Bre with her homework and five minutes later my head is exploding and she's promising that she will 'never, ever talk to you again and maybe not breath either!"
My husband steps in and after 10 minutes he wants to know if it's possible to die from frustration because he thinks he will die if he has to spend one more minute explaining that 18-9 is not 20.

[Karan]

The problem with math is that it is a symbolic and abstract concept and it is likely that Madison's brain just hasn't reached that developmental milestone yet. It's a shame that kids are humbled and humiliated into doing work that they just aren't physically ready to do it. However, public school...well, 'nuff said.

We used poker chips with our math challenged boy. Get Madison to figure out how to amass a fortune based on a $458.70x45 math problem. This sort of 3-D, hands-on learning helps with visual learners.

[Moshizzle]

Sounds like my mother and me about 15 years ago or more. The best thing she ever did was to get me a math tutor. While I'm still not sure how I'll ever get over the things my mother said to me while she was trying to help me with my homework (I'm stupid, she wished I had never been born etc), I'm now a graduate student (engineering and management) and still using the skills that my math tutor taught me all those years ago. Thanks Mrs Loh, wherever you are today!

[Melissa Summers]

Holy Shit. Your mom was channeling an internet troll. We have never reached the point of personal insults toward our daughter. The worst it gets is me saying, "You are FRUSTRATING THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!!" Which isn't you know, ideal.

[Lari]

An interesting fact I heard at work just yesterday was that people language oriented who like to read and write and are very good at it tend to do well in geometry, and not so well in the other applications. This was certainly the case with me. It took me three tries to pass algebra 1 in college. It would be nice if you could find a way to teach it in a literal way, writing out what she's doing and why it works that way?

[mommamac]

We too live this struggle. Recently my sixth grader blurted out the inevitable, "When am I ever gonna use this stupid math anyway?"

I had to bite my tongue not to say, "when YOU are helping YOUR obnoxious middle schooler with her homework!!!"

[LauraLou]

I was just like Madison when I was in elementary school. Words made sense to me, numbers didn't at all. I could tell you definitions, connotations, spellings, and read at an adult level, but the simplest arithmetic problem would confound me. I remember night after night of screaming and crying over timed multiplication tests in the third grade. It was incredibly frustrating for me because I was so used to being good at every other subject. Memorizing the multiplication tables wouldn't help because I was simply unable make sense of the numbers and their relationships. A tutor is a great solution, sometimes I could make a little more sense of things if it was explained in just the way I needed it. In the end though, it was just making it past the arithmetic-heavy elementary years. I did great once math became more about concepts than adding and subtracting. Now I'm a librarian and I still need a calculator to subtract double-digit numbers. Like I said, I do words, not numbers.

[Hetty]

A tutor will be worth every freakin' penny.

That said, I agree with an earlier post that Maddie simply MUST memorize her times tables (and I mean all of them, not just most). Bribe her if you have to. It will dog her all through school if she doesn't have them cold. I was just like her in school: great with words, wretched with numbers, and although my poor parents tried to force me to memorize the tables by testing me with flash cards, I discovered that if they sat with their backs to the light, I could see the answer shining through the non-completely-opaque card.... Anyway, I never did memorize the darned things and although I had straight A's in everything else in school, we don't really want to discuss my math grades! (Although, curiously, I also did well in geometry. I think it's because geometry is mostly concepts, not numbers.)

Good luck!!!!!!!!!

[jeanie]

Oooh - I feel your pain. My daughter and I can occasionally lock horns - add homework and the occasionally gets knocked out of the equation.

Good luck - we have recently found morning sessions (we are all early risers) work much more effectively than after school..